a New Mustang?

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:49 am

Well, if ya do that to Pontiac, there's also no reason to keep GMC, which 95% of ther time are re-badged Chevys, right? So, now, what have ya?

Cadillac
Saturn
Chevrolet

That's a GM out of the car business.........

Mercury will cease when Buick goes, no point.... Chrysler, Jeep & Dodge are allready Foreign Owned.

So, where's our Domestic Auto Industry ?

Ford/Lincoln/Chevy/Saturn/Cadillac that's it........

shelbyscarab · Post by **shelbyscarab** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:47 pm

Its sad.

And then we have to listen to Toyota's news that they will overtake GM as the #1 automaker. Great.

I did my part this year. Best I could do at the time, bought a new Ford.

You can thank all the people on the road driving hondas, toyotas, nissans. There isn't any country loyalty anymore. Your in the minority if you think that way nowadays. Once again, we're getting beat at our own game.

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:28 pm

Everytime on OTHER CAR SITES that I profess my loyality to buying American, others rip me apart. One such A-Hole on the Caddy board I am on called me a racist, and a bigot for not wanting a BMW or a Miserable Bendz "Like e'one else" wants, and went on to say that my reason for NOT wanting one of them was a stupid reason, just because my grandparents were gassed to death in Hitler's ovens, because all the people who gassed the Jews are all dead now, anyhow.... {{Frightening that Americans can think that way}} ~ so, it's NOT the Domestic car industry at fault, it's the American fools that areat fault. Thankfully most Americans are more intelligent than that {{I hope}} ~

When GM drops Buick, end of 2008, and IF they drop Pontiac, as mentioned, then the list of American cars looks like this:-

Cadillac; GMC; Saturn; Chevrolet; Lincoln;Mercury (if kept); Ford and Avanti (125 units a year).

** VS **

Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, Kia, Suzuki, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Land Rover, Volkswagon, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Saab, Volvo,Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Isuzu, Subaru, Mazda, Porsche, Hyundai, Maserati, lotus, Ferrari, Lamborghini and others....

How we gonna win? Compete?

I, Sandy, could fix all of this in 1 single day, AND make $$ for America.
How?

Have the President of the USA sign into law that every tax paying citizen will recieve a 5 percent tax break on their yearly income tax, IF IF IF they purchase in their name, a car made in the USA and a product of Ford or GM. Every person buying a bottom feeder (Oops, a car from thebottom group, above) will recieve a 6% tax sur charge on top of their regualr yearly tax bill.

Problem fixed.

1985 Motorsport Capri · Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:09 pm

did you know that sales of american cars have huge taxes & fees over seas. but yet here in the usa, forien car makers get tax breaks for selling & building there cars here. bad buisness choices made by u.s. politicians.

but in reality, the US auto makers are really killing themselves off. they are the only ones to blame. 70 thousand dollars for a shelby mustang?
bill ford needs to lay off the crack pipe. cars cost way too much these days. it would be hard to find a decent new US car for under 20 grand.
other factors include the UAW & employees pricing themselve out of work.
and lets not forget the fact that inflation is making sure that the big wigs at the us automakers are demanding more money for themselves while the rest of the workers who actualy build the cars get the shaft.
remember about 5 years ago when j. nasser was running things at ford?
they took heavy losses one year, closed a few plants, got rid of thousands of employees & ended several lines of cars that were ford mainstays for years.
& then he gave himself a 3.5 million dollar bonus a few months later.
and thats not including his multi-million dollar salary.

one thing the US auto makers also seem to be missing out on is the more employees you get rid of, the less cars you sell.
employees will sell a car a year. a new one for the worker, next year one for the wife, next year the father in-law comes in for the a-plan discount, the year after its one for the daughter & so on...
when you let go of 50 thousand employees in one year, that 50 thousand car sales lost.
will all of these fired auto workers buy the brand that sold there job to mexico ever again?
probably not.
and lets not forget about the replacement of actual employees for contractors. a contractor could give 2 s**ts about company loyalty when the company does not employ them or give them any type of reason to care about the product they work on or even buy one.
alright, back off the soap box. who's next?

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:28 pm

You think that the Japanese car execs don't make piles of Yen ? They do.
I have things regarding the Japanese tactics IN Japan against buying an American car that would make you foam at the mouth.

My son just ordered a Mazdaspeed3. To me....it is like him getting arrested for pushing drugs. I am sick over it, but....I remain quiet.

He made the $$$ saved the $$$ and will be paying the small loan & the insurance, but, as his Dad, I feel that I failed, regarding cars.

I have never, and will never own a foreign car. Ditto, thus far, nobody in my family.

75coug · Post by **75coug** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:22 am

So far, the only person in my immediate family who ever owned a foreign car was my maternal grandfather. When he was in his 80s, he traded in his Pontiac Astre (when I was ten, I thought that car was so cool) for a Toyotal Corolla wagon. I attributed the decision to the onset of dimentia and forgave him for it.

I really don't see any of the rest of us ever giving in and abandoning American cars. Yes, we are aware of foreign ownership (DaimlerChrysler). Yes, we are aware of "American" cars made in Canada, Mexico, Austalia and elsewhere. However, something just seems right about only buying cars with an American name on them.

Are there great foreign cars? Yep, bunches of them. I will never own one, however.

dahberg · Post by **dahberg** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:46 am

Sandy wrote:snip---
He made the $$$ saved the $$$ and will be paying the small loan & the insurance, but, as his Dad, I feel that I failed, regarding cars.

I have never, and will never own a foreign car. Ditto, thus far, nobody in my family.

Sandy, please reconsider what has been stated? Your son is your family. While it is hard to accept, more flies are drawn by honey than sour grapes. I am a fine one to speak as I have significant troubles dealing with the politically correct and have a habit of putting my foot in my mouth. I try to buy American, yet have to admit I have gone the Toyota side when Ford stopped actually producing the cars they have for sale. I have come back to the Ford side in recent years, but we are a minority in todays world.

I can wish you a Happy Haunnika and you wish a Merry Christmas to all as I would also wish a Happy Kawanza to those whom are inclined. It is difficult to see our herritage and life values destroyed in front of our faces. We can find comfort in the groups we support and participate in (ascMcLaren.org). Thank you to the troops figthing for freedom over in Iraq and God Bless all. For those who do not believe, may your lives be full and fruitful as well.

tfs2121 · Post by **tfs2121** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:27 pm

i love toyota.... had to get that out sorry guys but i love my Camry and my mom loved her first one that she got in 1990 and had till she got the one i drive in 2000 and she had that till just last year when she got her new one

now toyota quality has droped in years my moms 90 had 1 CV shaft replaced the whole time my mom owend it that was it other then basic tuneups my car is another story it had to have the trans rebuilt at 140,000

but i still love my car (i love the asc more though shhhh dont tell the camry)

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:21 pm

I have never said that Asian cars are no good, or poorly made or not as good as other countries cars. In fact, ther Asian cars are VERY good. I have NOTHING against the final product.
My problems are the tactics of the car's corporation's execs. By way of example, Volvo, Saab, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar and others merely want to sell their wares and PARTICIPATE in the American free trade system !
BRAVO.
However, Nissan, Honda, & Toyota want to take over our domestic market and rule and drive the American Car Industry into obvilation.

THAT is not good. They will not allow the USA the same freedoms in Japan that Japan enjoys here. Our dumbo politicians bend over backwards to them, and theirs shun the USA.

Our balance of trade is nil. The Asian market will soon be bigger than our domestic, IN OUR COUNTRY.

THIS is why I am against them.

It's like the NY Yankees playing the home town little league, the way the rules are layed out, regarding "Free Trade" ~ The cards are all stacked against the USA.

You are watching the end of the domestic car industry.

Here in NJ, we had 3 huge car assembly plants
Edison NJ made the original Mustang, more recently Ford Ranger Pick Ups.
The GM plant was in Linden, NJ & made Chevy Blazers & S10s
The Ford Mahwah plant made engines and some cars years ago.

Now? Mahwah leveled I think Condos
Linden Deserted - Possibly a warehouse
Edison. Bulldozed away for a hige gigantic mall
headed by WallMart (Mare Asian Stuff coming)

Every NEW car assembly plant being built here in the USA is being build by
an Asian brand !

When OUR car industry dies, the ripple effect will be felt around the world.

THAT is why I will never own any car not made by Ford or GM.

I care about America, and it's overtaxed, underpaid citizens, struggling to make ends meet, and keep raw material levels at Asian levels and we Americans are dealing with downsizing our living levels to those of the middle class in Tokyo, so that we can try & compete while our own government makes laws against the people of the USA and makes land ownership possible for the Japanese Executives who own:

Rockerfeller Center, Ya, the land your Christmas tree is ON
Pebble Beach Golf Course and loads & loads of prime proerties nationwide, many TAX FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, what Americans Do Not Know !

lightning95sc · Post by **lightning95sc** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:20 pm

I guess I'll weigh in on this one.

Having owned 99% American cars in my years, I guess you'd say I'm on the "Buy American" side of this debate.
Sandy, I understand where you're coming from with your son's purchase. I build ,repair and sell American cars, yet my Mom drives a Toyota everyday. Although she has a perfectly good Cadillac in the garage that she rarely drives. Now shes thinking of replacing the Toyota with a Honda. I've tried, in vain, to steer her toward a Focus and even a small GM car just to keep her out of another foreign car.
Unfortunately, she only keeps the Caddy for sentimental reasons, it belonged to my step-dad before he passed. But, she says American cars don't hold up well. Even though she makes comment about how MY cars hold up under my abuse. The PERCEPTION is that American cars are not as reliable as foreign cars, regardless to whether you have examples to thwart that perception. Chuck

ponydude · Post by **ponydude** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:38 pm

My son works for a small shop who contracts to the largest used car dealer in the southeast (wholesale and retail).
I've seen the cars that come through his shop. If it weren't for Chrysler Corp., he would starve to death.
What does that tell you?

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:42 pm

Amen, Brother! I hear that all the time. It's a cop out. Ever see any Asian Taxis ? Thought Not! What cars get a harder use ? Town next to me tried Mitsubishi Galant Taxis. Had em 2 years. Back to Impalas.

tfs2121 · Post by **tfs2121** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:44 pm

my car was built by americans in america... thats all i have to say

ASCMCLRN · Post by **ASCMCLRN** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:37 am

Well what can I say. So much has been said allready. I can understand both sides but the way things are going plan on some how going back to American completely. What do I own? Well I have an '04 Maxima, '00 Ducati Monster 900sie, and the '88 ASC McLaren. I've always loved Ford's but they basically eliminated every two door car with a touch of luxury and sport that i would have bought. The next step was to go for four door luxury sports. Unfortunately past years Ford's only contender left at the time was out of my league the Lincoln LS.

I've been leasing Maximas for the last 10 years. American car makers are virtually void in this market segment. I feel my car is well balanced with looks, performance, luxury, affordability, with year round drivability. The closest they came was the Taurus SHO and you know what Ford does once it has a hit. The bike was a no brainer, either go Japanese again or European. Harley's are out of my league. I guess American manufacturers feel they dont have a chance making a decent bike or maybe its more of the bean counter issue here too. Since my medical problems the bike is going. I would love to trade it in for another fox Mustang.

Politics. I have a funny feeling we are kissing Japans ass for a few reasons. One their location for our bases is ideal. Next they invest in the US dollar and consume allot of raw materials from us. This is vitally important as so many other nations are going under the Euro dollar cause of US debt going out of control. Iraq threatened going Euro for some time when Saddam was in power now Iran is.

Many of the Japanese car makers have plants in the US. So if people argue about our workmanship isnt as good I say balderdash!

My take Ford would be foolish to trim down and cut Mercury. They need to get back to the heart and soul of what each division should be doing. Ford the car anyone can afford, Mercury performance/ test bed for new, and Lincoln what a luxury car should be. With all these acquisitions of foreign automakers they lost their own identity. The theory you cant beat em, buy em doesnt work anymore. Gees so much can be said about this situation. Image is extremely important, quality imo is equal if not close, pricing can be much better, and if you want loyalty quit swapping names. /Rant off.

Nick

PS: FYI here is a neat link I found on another site, it is an inflation calculator. http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

For example just say an '88 ASC McLaren cost $25k new then has the same buying power as $42,582.42 today in 2006.

shelbyscarab · Post by **shelbyscarab** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Wow, this topic really got people going.....

I agree with most if not all of the posts that I've seen the last 2 days.

Everytime on OTHER CAR SITES that I profess my loyality to buying American, others rip me apart. One such A-Hole on the Caddy board I am on called me a racist, and a bigot for not wanting a BMW or a Miserable Bendz "Like e'one else" wants, and went on to say that my reason for NOT wanting one of them was a stupid reason, just because my grandparents were gassed to death in Hitler's ovens, because all the people who gassed the Jews are all dead now, anyhow.... {{Frightening that Americans can think that way}} ~ so, it's NOT the Domestic car industry at fault, it's the American fools that areat fault. Thankfully most Americans are more intelligent than that {{I hope}} ~

When GM drops Buick, end of 2008, and IF they drop Pontiac, as mentioned, then the list of American cars looks like this:-

Cadillac; GMC; Saturn; Chevrolet; Lincoln;Mercury (if kept); Ford and Avanti (125 units a year).

** VS **

Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, Kia, Suzuki, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Land Rover, Volkswagon, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Saab, Volvo,Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Isuzu, Subaru, Mazda, Porsche, Hyundai, Maserati, lotus, Ferrari, Lamborghini and others....

How we gonna win? Compete?

I, Sandy, could fix all of this in 1 single day, AND make $$ for America.
How?

Have the President of the USA sign into law that every tax paying citizen will recieve a 5 percent tax break on their yearly income tax, IF IF IF they purchase in their name, a car made in the USA and a product of Ford or GM. Every person buying a bottom feeder (Oops, a car from thebottom group, above) will recieve a 6% tax sur charge on top of their regualr yearly tax bill.

Problem fixed.

GREAT IDEA!!!!!

Ok, but think I need to be objective and clarify something. #1 - I do think that there are some great Asian cars. #2 - I just would never buy one.

Now, another comment, and some will/might think its anti-Asian, but it makes sense. I don't have ANY problem with buying a German, British, Italian, etc. European car. Why? Because no european car maker is taking over the industry in our country.

My grandfather, a Navy man who never really got over the Pearl Harbor attack, always used to say that ".....they will get back at us economically, not militarily."