a New Mustang?

[Sandy]

It's not about being "Anti-Asian" ~ (I Sandy, certainly am NOT) ~ it's about a word called "Protectionism" ~ If we do not protect our markets (to some degree) we will have NO markets. Simple as that.

Americans are NOT going back to 1961 living standards ans wage earnings, so that we can sell Buick Lucernes at the price of Toyota Camrys.

Why is it Okay, that the Japanese gov't. protect Japanese industry IN Japan ~ but American Government is called on the rug for protecting American manufacturing in America ?? Double Standard !!

[ASCMCLRN]

My grandfather, a Navy man who never really got over the Pearl Harbor attack, always used to say that ".....they will get back at us economically, not militarily."

I remember when the President of Sony Corp once said Japan would make the US a third world country. That was probably around the time they bought the Rockefeller Center. I dont understand how our country can sit still and allow this to happen, any other country would intervene and protect the interest of its people. IMO they should force Japan to sell their companies on an open market as we do and allow only x amount of foreign cars to be sold in the US. How come we instantly bail out the airline industry but not the auto industry?

Nick

[shelbyscarab]

Sandy had a great point/info I didn't know.

You never hear one word about how U.S. products are selling overseas. And low and behold, there are all kinds of restrictions on the selling of American products. WHat a load of CR@P! This information should be plastered all over the radio, TV and print news to get this word out. Although I know alot of people wouldn't care.

And, going back to what someone else mentioned, labor cost is also a problem. Along with health care costs. In a perfect world and Ford and GM paid what Asian makers do, imagine the price of domestic cars and trucks........

[ckj]

You need to have foriegn cars available for sale to force the big 3 to improve there products. If we limited foriegn car sales in the USA then we would be no better than france, which does the same. Everyone there is stuck driving around in Renault's and Peugots and other cars fromt he EU.

Reliability and quality have generally been superior on foriegn cars and it is pushing the big 3 to address these problems. Again please don't forget that this is the USA, if you can't compete in your field you should fix the problem or close the doors. The government shouldn't have any role in the above as there are pretty big difference between airlines and automakers.

[ASCMCLRN]

Sandy had a great point/info I didn't know.

You never hear one word about how U.S. products are selling overseas. And low and behold, there are all kinds of restrictions on the selling of American products. WHat a load of CR@P! This information should be plastered all over the radio, TV and print news to get this word out. Although I know alot of people wouldn't care.

And, going back to what someone else mentioned, labor cost is also a problem. Along with health care costs. In a perfect world and Ford and GM paid what Asian makers do, imagine the price of domestic cars and trucks........

Many of the Japanese automakers are producing their cars here in America with American salaries along with the health care costs. They are competing well. What I dont like is we have all the resources, manufacturing, labor and Japan was able to still beat us when they were importing our steel and shipping an end product back over here. Now we eliminated their costs of shipping back and forth and they are in an even better position.

Nick

[ASCMCLRN]

You need to have foriegn cars available for sale to force the big 3 to improve there products. If we limited foriegn car sales in the USA then we would be no better than france, which does the same. Everyone there is stuck driving around in Renault's and Peugots and other cars fromt he EU.

Reliability and quality have generally been superior on foriegn cars and it is pushing the big 3 to address these problems. Again please don't forget that this is the USA, if you can't compete in your field you should fix the problem or close the doors. The government shouldn't have any role in the above as there are pretty big difference between airlines and automakers.

Were does it say in America that we have to protect the interest of other nations? If anything it should protect the interest of our own. Do you realize we had enough car manufacturers within the US to compete and produce a better product? If I remember correctly quality was never an issue until we had to re-engineer our cars to become smaller and more fuel efficient. Do you remember qualitiy issues back in the 60's or early 70's? I remember during the 80's it became an issue. As far as comparing to France or any other nation, why not compare their foreign trade debt with ours and draw the conclusion they have a better policy which is protecting their business. It is not the fault of American companies if foreign competitors dump their excess product in America to hurt our industries. Of course the government should have a role in protecting so many career jobs of Americans we are talking about international affairs. Care to share the difference between the airlines and auto industry other then difference in transportation? I am wondering what differences you are thinking about.

Nick

[Sandy]

I HAVE PAGES & PAGES & PAGES, of the 100's of UNfair practices that are done IN Japan AGAINST American product. I'm not about to dig them out, right now, but i 'll give you one to boil your blood.

1. You are age 20. An Asian Japanese citizen in good standing & you want to buy a new car. Nope! You can not! Why ? Because first you must OWN a parking space. Well, it's not really A SPACE, but rather a window decal attesting to the fact that you PAID MONEY to BUY a parking space. This here decal, will allow you to park your car, wherever you need to go.
Problem #1. You MUST own an Asian car, for your 1st car, and it must be new...as in BRAND NEW. Parking Spaces are NOT sold to owners of non Asian cars, so, your 1st car must be an Asian brand.

Okay, we need to do this in America.

Want Another ?

2. American Brands sold in Japan, must be displayed in showrooms that also sell Asian brands. There must be 2 Asain Brands displayed, for each American Brand. The Asian Brands need to be posistioned more prominitly than the American Brands. The salesperson get a financial bonus for selling the Asian brand.

We need to do THAT in America, too.

Want Another?

3. Salespersonal are told to try and defer test drives in the American cars, but cheerfully offer such in the Asian cars.

We need to to do that here.

Want Another ?

TOMORROW

Sandy = G.M. or Ford or the # 32 crosstown

[ckj]

I didnt say it was fair in other countries regarding the business environment for US companies to sell their cars or products. I also never said that the US needs to protect the rights of other countries.

I don't know how many Audi's or Toyota's you guys have been in the last few years but after living in europe for the last 3 yrs (to keep my USA job that was outsourced to a government subsidized factory in France) I tell you that coming back home and getting into a chevrolet and feeling solid plastic and crap interior everywhere in a car that cost more than the foriegn counterpart pretty much sums up the entire problem here. There is a point when I refuse to pay more money for garbage to enable someone pushing the "green" button on an assembly line in rochester to make 80k a year. I don't care what the source of the problem is, but the US auto industry has not been competetive and is going through a necessary adjustment.

And why would one buy a Ford or Chevy in Europe anyways? They offer a few barebone products and there are no dealerships to be found anywhere. Until they actually design products for those consumers they will not win that business. Trust me you can't drive an expedition or even a normally sized us car like a taurus comfortably in most of europe. I'm gonna say that upwards of 50% of the cars in France are running on diesel now. They have amazingly powerful, small, smartly designed cars from many companies including the japanese, german, italian, french that all compete against each other very well. But no competitively designed american cars. When gas cost $5 a gallon and all you sell is large gas guzzling cars your not going to do well.


Next: Our governement doesn't protect our jobs. It's a fact of life that you will have to get used to. It takes only common sense to look at other industries in the past few decades to see what will continue to happen.

Steel industry = gone
electronics manufacturing = gone to asia and japan in the 80's
etc etc etc etc..


Here is a personal example: I work in the semiconductor industry and have lost my job 2 times over the last 10 years to outsourcing factories overseas. Nothing I can do about it but be smarter and move up the food chain and perform the type of work that wont be outsourced.

The US auto industry needs to fix its own problems. It isn't a problem that my tax dollars should go towards fixing.


The airline industry is an entirely different being. There are 2 major aircraft manufacturers (boeing and airbus) and everyone pays similar prices for their planes. What is sold is a trip, not a automobile or an airplane. Different airlines are locked into different routes and have fixed costs (fuel, maintenance etc). The unfair competition in this industry is extremely cutthroat and warrants government intervention. Unlike the auto industry, where these companies are turning out poorly designed product after poorly designed product and getting beatin in the marketplace. It's entirely different. You can't compare Coca Cola's profits and Vernor's Ginger Ale and make a statement that the government should intervene and help Vernor's Ginger Ale. It's solely a consumer driven opinion based on the end product which drives there success.

[shelbyscarab]

Ok, I just spent a good amount of time typing a great post, the damn site timed out on me and I lost the entire thing. That gets your blood boiling.

So, Sandy, great info, keep it comin'

CKJ, I see your points on a few things, but I've been in some American Cars with great interiors.

[1985 Motorsport Capri]

getting back to the original topic of this thread.
heres the car.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /612310351

[ASCMCLRN]

getting back to the original topic of this thread.
heres the car.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /612310351

Thanks for posting this, it looks like a Chrysler 300m with a chopped roofline. I hope they make it a Mercury or heck make a T-Bird and Cougar out of it. Follow the window lines of the 80's if they can to distinguish the two.

Nick

[75coug]

Remember the Ford 500 concept, and the car's look and performance by the time it reached production? Let's hope that this isn't a repeat.

[Sandy]

That car is beautiful! I'd buy that! They should make it the all new Crown Victoria

[mustang marty]

With the Intercepter name, I am sure that is Ford's idea. But like every Ford concept it would be toned down for production. The Mustang, Zephyr (MKZ), Edge, & the up coming Fairlane went from Wild to Mild in the concept to production migration.

[Kyle]

Everytime on OTHER CAR SITES that I profess my loyality to buying American, others rip me apart. One such A-Hole on the Caddy board I am on called me a racist, and a bigot for not wanting a BMW or a Miserable Bendz "Like e'one else" wants, and went on to say that my reason for NOT wanting one of them was a stupid reason, just because my grandparents were gassed to death in Hitler's ovens, because all the people who gassed the Jews are all dead now, anyhow.... {{Frightening that Americans can think that way}} ~ so, it's NOT the Domestic car industry at fault, it's the American fools that areat fault. Thankfully most Americans are more intelligent than that {{I hope}} ~

When GM drops Buick, end of 2008, and IF they drop Pontiac, as mentioned, then the list of American cars looks like this:-

Cadillac; GMC; Saturn; Chevrolet; Lincoln;Mercury (if kept); Ford and Avanti (125 units a year).

** VS **

Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, Kia, Suzuki, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Land Rover, Volkswagon, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Saab, Volvo,Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Isuzu, Subaru, Mazda, Porsche, Hyundai, Maserati, lotus, Ferrari, Lamborghini and others....

How we gonna win? Compete?

I, Sandy, could fix all of this in 1 single day, AND make $$ for America.
How?

Have the President of the USA sign into law that every tax paying citizen will recieve a 5 percent tax break on their yearly income tax, IF IF IF they purchase in their name, a car made in the USA and a product of Ford or GM. Every person buying a bottom feeder (Oops, a car from thebottom group, above) will recieve a 6% tax sur charge on top of their regualr yearly tax bill.

Problem fixed.

you have a couple companies in the wrong spot, Mazda, Jag, Volvo, Saab, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Mitsubishi are all American cars, Jeep, Chrysler, and Dodge are still American (you could say Mercades is American now rather then vice versa) and Nissan is about to merge with Renault (ive heard)

According to several reports Toyota's fit and finish quality is falling, they are number seven (behind GM, Ford, and Kia) in fewest problems per 100 vehicles for the first 6 mo of ownership and Toyota and Honda have more recalls then any other company, they just don't announce them like Ford and GM do.

The offerings for Ford, GM, and Chrysler actually look pretty good, GM and Chrysler are offering RWD and Ford is going AWD. I have never been impressed with Japanese cars.

Also American cars are MUCH less expensive then their Asian counterparts. A loaded Fusion with AWD is $24-25k, a Camry/Accord without AWD is nearer $30k+